The Hidden Identity Crisis in Women's Sports | Sam Kelley

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Guys, today I'm gonna talk with Sam Killey from Fierce Athletes. She's gonna talk about femininity and how that expresses itself through athleticism. Some people think those two things aren't compatible, but they actually are. But it's more than that. It's about the beauty of what a woman is, what a man is, the beauty of athletics. And we're gonna dive into the crisis happening when people forget who they are. And so often people, young people especially, lose their sense of self in athletics, whether it's in just forgetting their worth and having to prove themselves constantly and falling into conditional love or sexual confusion or identity confusion or drugs and alcohol. Guys, it's a mess, the landscape of female athletics. But Sam has the solution, not just to fix things, but to help people truly thrive. And it ends in a prayer that actually got me super, surprisingly choked up. You don't want to miss the end. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Chris Stefanick Show. We're here every week to give you the tools and inspiration that you need to live your everyday life with joy. And it's our joy to do that. I'm here to inspire. It's my job description. You want more inspiration every day? Click below. This video. Sign up for the Daily Anchor. Let us bless you and inspire you every day. Also, if you sign up for the Daily Anchor, we're going to do a drawing where you and a friend might win a trip with me and Natalie to Kauai on our pilgrimage to Beauty and side trip to Kalaupapa, where, I mean, God willing, this all comes through, man. Where Father Damien and Sister Marianne Cope did ministry to the leper colony. It's going to be mind blowing. So in addition to Daily inspiration, you get a chance at winning this. What are you waiting for, dude? Sign up also, Missionaries of Joy, I want to thank you for making this work possible. If you want to make this work possible, become a missionary of joy, too. The link is below the video. For like 10, 15, 20 bucks a month, dude, you can help us change the world and spread the love of Jesus to people who desperately need hope and inspiration. Please get off the sidelines and help us out. We need you. Let's dive in. Sam. Kelly. [00:02:07] Speaker B: So good to see you. [00:02:08] Speaker A: It is really good to have you. I'm grateful. Thanks for coming out. [00:02:11] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Fierce athlete. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Why are your knuckles raw? Cause you're a fierce. I'm looking at that. I'm like, you're doing something really. It's kind of healing, athletic and violent. [00:02:21] Speaker B: I fell off My triathlon bike. Of course, it wasn't my worst crash. It was a minor one, but yeah. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd show that off. Dude, triathlete, iron woman. That's epic. Have you done one before? [00:02:34] Speaker B: I've done a half. Training for a full. [00:02:36] Speaker A: When? [00:02:37] Speaker B: This summer, God willing. I have a torn meniscus right now, so, you know, just training. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Where's the meniscus in your knee? You need those for a trial. [00:02:45] Speaker B: You do? Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker A: But are you gonna be able to do it? [00:02:49] Speaker B: We'll see. The training's going okay. I can. I can handle the pain. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Is this the most intense thing you've ever done athletically? Like. Nah, this is nothing. [00:03:00] Speaker B: I mean, like, college sports is brutal. Yeah, this is pretty intense. I mean this in terms of like a one day feat. This will be the most intense. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Do you feel amazing? Like training up for a triathlon. Do you feel like it's. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:16] Speaker A: I could run in the airport. It's nothing. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit though. You're tired a lot of the time too, because. [00:03:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:21] Speaker B: You're. Yeah. Doing double workouts most days. [00:03:24] Speaker A: It's awesome. [00:03:25] Speaker B: But it's good. [00:03:26] Speaker A: I love the work you do. Thank you. It's so cool. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Thanks. Me too. [00:03:30] Speaker A: The name is so cool too. [00:03:31] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:03:32] Speaker A: And you have swag already. [00:03:33] Speaker B: We do. [00:03:34] Speaker A: That's incredible. What's the website? I just want to start with that because I often forget. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Fierce dot org. How did you get one? [00:03:42] Speaker A: How did you get that? I have website envy right now. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:47] Speaker A: You got a one word website. It's a cool word. [00:03:49] Speaker B: I looked like five, six years ago. Like why? I started about 10 years ago. [00:03:53] Speaker A: You need that like 20 years ago. [00:03:55] Speaker B: I know. We bought it off somebody. Wasn't that expensive. It like wasn't being used. I don't have fierce dot com. That's like some weird. [00:03:59] Speaker A: No. Yeah, that'd be even cooler. [00:04:01] Speaker B: But. [00:04:01] Speaker A: But fearist.org is pretty awesome. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Wow. Way to go. Fearce.org. there it is. One word that's an accomplishment. Thank you. No, when you start a ministry and you jump into something like that, like you're usually addressing a pain point in your life and in society at the same time. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker A: So yeah. What's the pain? Like what's going wrong that you're trying to fix by jumping into the whole athletic realm. [00:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So fierce is specifically for women. So our mission is. Dang it. Our mission is to empower female athletes to thrive in their God given identity and femininity. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Say it again. [00:04:40] Speaker B: To empower female Athletes to thrive in their God given. It's already there, identity and femininity. So the pain point is female athletes don't know their deepest identity as daughter. Right. It's based off performance, it's based off of other people's opinions. It's based off of all the pressures they're facing. But then there's this interesting tension in athletics between being athletic and being feminine. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Wow. [00:05:06] Speaker B: You think tomboy, like what was I called growing up? Tomboy. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:09] Speaker B: So there's this kind of lie, this rooted lie now in today's culture with a lot of confusion that can grow. But really empowering and teaching women. No, by the fact that God created you as a woman, you are feminine. And the way you actually express that is through your athleticism. [00:05:27] Speaker A: How awesome is that? Yeah, yeah. Identity is everything. It's the battleground. [00:05:33] Speaker B: I'm convinced. Every major issue. Because in team athletics, I mean, it's like a lot of the pressure, a lot of mental health stuff, a lot of body image, eating disorders, sexual confusion, promiscuity. All of it comes down to a lack of understanding of who we really are. Our deepest identity. Which is a bold claim. [00:05:54] Speaker A: But true. [00:05:55] Speaker B: But true. [00:05:56] Speaker A: The whole confirmation program we're making right now is about your core. It's about how people see themselves. Because everything goes wrong from there. The devil's attack on Jesus in the desert. If you are the son of God, it's like he's trying to shake. He wasn't going to succeed with Jesus, but he's got one line of attack. Come right at who you think you are. [00:06:17] Speaker B: And if we're made in the image and likeness of God, if he can distort who we are, then he distorts our view of God and view of self. [00:06:24] Speaker A: So what's up you guys? I'm so glad you're watching. Would you please let us inspire you every single day? Click below this video and sign up for the Daily Anchor. And this is really cool, guys. When you sign up for the Daily Anchor, you're entered into a drawing. We're going to pick a name where you can bring a friend on the pilgrimage to Beauty and to Kalaupapa, where St Damian of Molokai, Marian Cope and Joseph Dutton poured out their lives serving a leper colony. Dude, this is going to be a mind blowing trip. You're going to be drawn to get a chance to win it for free. What? So we'll put info about the whole trip if you just want to sign up below the video. But the Daily Anchor, that's how you get daily inspiration and a chance to win that trip. Okay, back to our video. Have you always been athletic? [00:07:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:12] Speaker A: So when did this start for you? [00:07:14] Speaker B: My athleticism or. Jesus. [00:07:15] Speaker A: Yeah, no athleticism. Like did you like when you were five? [00:07:18] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:07:19] Speaker A: I'm gonna start, I don't know, doing jiu jitsu at 5. I mean I was hoping you would say like this is. This is because I took up Muay Thai. Bare knuckle? Muay Thai? [00:07:27] Speaker B: No, I did do karate for two weeks when I was little. Last. But both my parents are athletic so my dad played college soccer. My mom was a three sport high school athlete. I mean she would've played college sports if it was. It was kind of available to her back then. So we just grew up active, I would say. Yeah. [00:07:46] Speaker A: So your whole life. [00:07:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:48] Speaker A: How did this go wrong for you personally? Like did it when you were a kid? Like did this get mixed up with identity and performance issues and like conditional love and you know, even great parents accidentally do this to their kids. Like the wrong messages come in all the time. Yeah. How did this impact you? How did the wrong. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, fortunately, and I refer to my parents love for me all the time. They were, they were very unconditional. Like they knew when to push. But. But my biggest. I was my biggest kind of hurdle and critic, if you will. It's very tough on myself. But I think the identity piece came my senior year of high school. I mean I was a nine time state champion in high school. So it's like my identity was athlete. I was set to go nine times state champion, what seven in track and then soccer and ice hockey. [00:08:38] Speaker A: You're intense. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:40] Speaker A: That's three sports. Did you know it's three sports? Yeah. How'd you have time for anything? [00:08:44] Speaker B: You just do it. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Okay, go ahead. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's in the ethos, like that's what sport teaches you is. Is discipline and commitment and I mean now I'm running a whole non profit and I can train for an Ironman. Like it just. [00:08:57] Speaker A: Wow. You just get up and go. [00:08:59] Speaker B: You just do it and it's good for like that's my balance. Like that's how I've been raised anyway. [00:09:04] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:09:05] Speaker B: But yeah, I was set to go play D1 soccer and blew out my knee. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Wow. [00:09:10] Speaker B: So it was just classic identity crisis because without being able to be on the field and it was, it was about a three year recovery. It was such an extensive injury that they told me I never played the D1 level again. And so you just the same knee this? Yeah. I've had four knee surgeries. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Okay. Everybody watching, same pause. Say a prayer for her knee. We're gonna have a miraculous knee. [00:09:31] Speaker B: Please, Jesus, heal. In the name of Jesus. I've seen ACLs heal. [00:09:34] Speaker A: So let's go, right? [00:09:36] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:09:37] Speaker A: We're gonna pray. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. [00:09:39] Speaker A: All right. Group prayer. Everybody watching. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Let's go. Thank you. Thank you. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Actually, we will literally pray at the end of this for that. [00:09:45] Speaker B: I would love that. [00:09:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. God can do all things. [00:09:48] Speaker B: He can and he does. Yeah. And so it led to that identity crisis, because I think then for me, [00:09:57] Speaker A: but I think sometimes God lets us get wounded because he wants to heal [00:10:00] Speaker B: something bigger than us, because he will bring something greater. [00:10:02] Speaker A: Maybe he doesn't want to heal your knee right now. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Maybe not. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Is there something else going on? [00:10:07] Speaker B: Well, that's what you find. No, seriously, Whenever there's a physical injury or some type of surgery, I always ask people, I'm like, what's the Lord doing in your heart? Like, what surgery is he doing there? [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:16] Speaker B: So it's so paralleled. So [00:10:20] Speaker A: I will ask that question. Thanks for teeing it up for me, but go ahead back to D1 College. [00:10:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:25] Speaker B: So I show up. You know, I'm sitting on the bench, and just the classic. You enter into a very, very toxic. I mean, female. Athletics is super toxic. It's pretty well hidden, but there's a lot of pressures. Yeah. A lot of influences, a lot of drinking, a lot of promiscuity. And I'd say my Catholic foundation. I grew up Catholic. I'm looking back, saved me from so much. And so I offer that as actually a encouragement and consolation for parents. It's like, trust. The foundation that you've laid will be in the back of your kid's mind when they're being pressured. And so I was saved from a lot because of my faith, but I didn't know Jesus personally. And so it was a matter of actually having an encounter with him in the Eucharist that just was like, I'm not loved because I'm a D1 soccer player. I mean, the Lord delights in that. He created me athletic. He loves that about me. But I'm just loved. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Oh, I just love that message. [00:11:17] Speaker B: That creates freedom. Right. To be who God created you to be. So it was like that moment in time and then trajectory to. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Dude, that's awesome. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Where we are now. Yeah. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Tell me about that moment with Eucharist. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Well, I set myself up. I didn't Know this, but I set myself up by going to probably my most raw confession to that point in time. Like, I just. I was at a Focus conference and I just was, praise God. Tired of the double life, tired of the lies. Even, like I tell people, when you go to confession, just be raw. Like the priest has heard it. I wasn't, like, beating around everything. I was like, this is it. And he was an awesome, awesome priest. Loved sports. And so we had connected. And so I set myself up because when I went before the Lord, I'd never been to adoration before. My heart was purified and open. And it was a matter of procession when Jesus entered the room. And I just got the chills. And I was like, there's a. There's something here. And it was someone. I mean, I looked into the monstrance and it was instantaneous. That's Jesus. It's hard to put words to, you know. [00:12:24] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:26] Speaker A: He just knew. There's, like, knowing where you can recite it and then there's knowing because you see it, which is a spiritual experience. And that communicated to you. Love. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And just joy. [00:12:42] Speaker A: You just feel all the years of self pressure and the pressure of the athletic community just kind of go away. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:49] Speaker A: You know, it's wild. People talk about how judgmental churchy people are. And I don't go to church. They're all judgmental. It's like, dude, step into a sports field where people are serious about it. Come to my gym. Actually, my gym's got a lot of great people at it. But the average gym, you want to. You want to talk about harsh judgment, like, they're sizing you up in two seconds and you put the wrong thing in your mouth. You don't lift the right way. You know, whatever it is, like, you know, you're instantly judged in exteriors. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:15] Speaker A: It's brutal. There's also the identity crisis in women's sports. I don't think this is as much as men's sports, but especially women's sports that plays into the worst stereotypes where, like, you know, I'll just ask straight up, like, did you experience peer pressure to be a lesbian playing women's sports? [00:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was not something, I think now it's earlier, like, you're seeing women struggling with same sex attraction or entering into relationships, if you will, middle school, high school now. [00:13:47] Speaker A: But who are in sports. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:51] Speaker A: By the time you get to college, like, what percent of the people surrounding you? [00:13:54] Speaker B: A third. [00:13:55] Speaker A: A third. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah. But I didn't know, like, I show up at UConn and it was like all of a sudden girls are hitting on you and talking about it, and it was just like this flood of wow. [00:14:08] Speaker A: Wow. So a third are engaging in that. And so the other two thirds. Do they end up. Is a third enough to make you feel almost left out because you're still in the majority? Yeah. [00:14:22] Speaker B: I mean, it depends on the sport too. It's interesting. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Can be far more than a third. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:27] Speaker A: These are good questions for parents to investigate. Before you hide. [00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah, no, look into who the. Cause there's a lot of coaches, you know, that are in same sex relationships and that creates a culture. Really. And then there's other coaches, you know, that's a question I tell parents to ask, like, is the coach, you know, in a same sex relationship? Are they not, you know, if they're married to the kids, like, you know, it just creates an ethos around the team, whether you're talking about faith or not. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's not like I can't function around people who don't agree with me. You know, it's like, that's fine. [00:15:01] Speaker B: You're constantly around people don't agree with me. [00:15:02] Speaker A: That's it. Yeah. But when it becomes a pressure thing, a confusion thing, because. And obviously it has. When you reach 33% of people and I don't know the exact numbers. Well. [00:15:12] Speaker B: And there's no statistic. There's no reason they won't. You're not allowed to ask questions anecdotally. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I have no. When I heard that anecdotally, I'd think, okay, maybe get into softball and be 50%. Like, there's other sports where it's just basketball. [00:15:25] Speaker B: I mean, the WNBA right now, it's [00:15:26] Speaker A: like, yeah, like, when it gets that high. Clearly it wasn't that everyone happened to be born that way. Like, there's something going on with the societal pressure cooker that pushes you in that direction and introduces confusions that you wouldn't have otherwise had. Which. Which is like, I don't want to expose my kid to things that might make their life a lot more complicated than it needs to be. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:15:50] Speaker A: That's the most simple way of saying it. What is it that's leading to that specifically? Why is that tied to sports so disproportionately? [00:16:01] Speaker B: I think there's a lot of factors. Couple things. I mean, they say a quarter, I'd say it's a third to a half of women have been abused. So there's deep, deep. Like the women that I knew, but [00:16:13] Speaker A: that's across the general population, not just in sports. [00:16:15] Speaker B: But I will say that the women that I knew that were struggling had, most of them had been abused at some point in their life by men sexually. So there's that underlying. You think about like fear of men and wounds of the heart, really. But then, yeah, there is an, like, people do prey on you, you know, it's like they do come at you and make suggestive comments and you want to fit in, right? But I think really. And then I'll say two more things. One is that female athletes, like, again, this perception of, well, I'm more masculine or I'm more muscular. And again, those are lies. Because you're created as a woman, you are feminine. And so there's this kind of disassociation with your femininity, which I think then can lead to that. And then finally, it's interesting, you gotta think about it. Women were very emotional. Like we connect emotionally before physically. Men are opposite. It's physical and then there's an emotional connection. And so you're spending all of this time with this group of women, you're suffering together, you're going through experiences together, you're bonding. And I think in our culture today, people associate attraction with sexual attraction. [00:17:25] Speaker A: Isn't this sad? [00:17:26] Speaker B: Because we're so hypersexualized. Like, I'm supposed to be attracted to other women. How else am I going to know what it is to be a woman? [00:17:32] Speaker A: Right? [00:17:32] Speaker B: But what society says is, well, that means that you must be a, quote, lesbian. And if people haven't grown up, which a lot of people haven't, in a healthy home where they're seeing proper mothers and fathers and proper expression of sexuality, right? When they're emotionally ignited. Sometimes when you emotionally connect with somebody, women like then were kind of physically or sexually ignited. And if there's not that proper ordering, there can be confusion. And then you find too that it's like. And again it comes back to the identity, then something happens, right? So sometimes there's a lot of interdependence or emotional reliance on others, or co dependence or enmeshment. And then something happens physically. And I've seen this time and time again, then it becomes, well, that is my identity. I've had this experience and so now I must be. And what is the, I mean, what's the culture feeding us too? Right? You must be that way. [00:18:34] Speaker A: So it's really beautifully summed up. [00:18:37] Speaker B: I spent a lot of time thinking about it and praying about it and listening to women's stories. But I think the beauty of that is that I've been able to walk with women towards freedom, towards a realization of who God created them to be, of the beauty of their sexuality. And the other thing too is most women don't mature sexually till they're 25. And so they're having all these experiences. And I think as long as they're not affirmed or they're shoved into a certain identity, you oftentimes see, like, I have. I have many college teammates who are now married to men. You see it kind of parse out. Not for everybody. Right, right. [00:19:11] Speaker A: I mean, some people experience it in a way that it's as if you're born that way because it's like, I don't know where it came from. It won't go away. And, you know, we have other shows on that. Like, how do you. Do you deal with that as a devout person following Jesus? Sure. But for, I think a whole lot of people who go there, it's because most people can end up finding pleasure in ways that they allow themselves to. That's not crazy talk, that's human. History shows us that, like, the Spartan 300. Did you know that they were gay? [00:19:42] Speaker B: No. [00:19:42] Speaker A: No. It's a thing. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Like, people don't know that. They think this is the manliest of all men. And like, it was a thing back then for them to sleep with each other. And in Spartan military culture, for them to sleep with the boys who were coming up through the ranks and have them perform favor like, this was a total pedophilia and homosexuality. They were open to things and it became a norm and it became. Well, I can find pleasure in that thing and allowing myself and boom. So part of your work is actually coaching people to process that if they've been pressured into it and then tripped into it in a way they didn't even necessarily want to or foresee. Yeah. You're dealing with a lot of. So that's one of the. One of the wounded areas. What are other wounded areas you're helping rehab people in? [00:20:31] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting. It's like, that's one extreme, and then the other extreme is just hyper promiscuity with men. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:38] Speaker B: You know, and so, and I think too, this is interesting, I was talking to a D1 coach and she said, devout Catholic woman, and she said, you know, it's like my kids are either, you know, in same sex relationships or they're sleeping around. [00:20:49] Speaker A: Wow. [00:20:50] Speaker B: And I think there's like, you're. You're almost trying to Counter. [00:20:52] Speaker A: There's no other normal. [00:20:53] Speaker B: She goes, they don't know that there's a third way. Like, they have no idea that you can, like, live chastity. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Okay, so what is it about the sports culture that's making them hyper promiscuous? [00:21:03] Speaker B: I mean, there's a total play hard, party hard mentality. [00:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:07] Speaker B: But you also got to think, like, they're fit, they're athletic, they're attractive. I mean, this is why, like, I think it's like, I don't know the number. Hundreds of thousands of condoms are handed out at the, at the Olympics. [00:21:18] Speaker A: It's disturbing. [00:21:20] Speaker B: It's disturbing. Yeah. And again, there's also like, it's a pressure cooker. So that's the thing is, like, all of this, a lot of this is very hidden because you got to think [00:21:29] Speaker A: the eyes of the world are on the lease almost. [00:21:31] Speaker B: It's a release. So how are they releasing? Right. It could be sexually, it could be. I mean, the average student athlete drinks more than the normal student. It could be drugs. It could be, you know, all the mental health issues, the self harm. I mean, there's. Yeah, it's. It's an intensity that when you don't have it directed towards a proper identity. [00:21:55] Speaker A: That's heavy. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, but Jesus is. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Lord, [00:22:00] Speaker B: that's my comment. [00:22:01] Speaker A: Truth. God bless. That's the solution. That's. Yeah, he is it. I mean, like, he's the. He's the golden bullet, kind of fixes everything. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Yeah, but. And, no, I shouldn't say but. And yeah, an encounter with Jesus is step one. But then we. And you probably see this. It's like the need for deep inner healing is step two. [00:22:24] Speaker A: What does that look like? [00:22:26] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Letting the spirit heal wounds, renouncing the lies and the inner vows we live by. Healing memories, healing trauma. [00:22:35] Speaker A: So you're doing all this in peers. That's more than you thought you were gonna do. [00:22:39] Speaker B: Oh, it's. I mean, even from us talking a few years ago. Oh, it's totally. I think the church is in a time for healing. It really, really do identity and healing. There we go. [00:22:48] Speaker A: This is the era we're in. And I think there's a lot of. A lot. A lot of people in, like, the Catholic media sphere who are in the, like, let's fight everything in culture war mode or, or whatever, or find edgy things to say to go viral, but God bless them. But I think that what the Lord's doing right now is this is a. We're turning a corner where he just. Identity and Healing is where he wants us, I think. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Amen. [00:23:14] Speaker A: You're standing under the torrent of grace with that one man. Okay, so I'm amazed. Like, you've turned there, actually. It makes perfect sense. You're dealing with people with identity wounds from sports. This has been like a crash course for you then? [00:23:30] Speaker B: A little bit. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Yeah. How does that look when you're taking someone through healing who's lost themselves, maybe hasn't even had an injury in a wake up call, but they're showing up wanting what you got, like, you're a mess, kid. Let me help you. Yeah. [00:23:45] Speaker B: Gosh, you know, it's interesting. I think people are. I mean, we live in a truthless society. So it's interesting because I'll go into a sports team. So, you know, I go in and work with sports teams or schools or universities or, you know, we have a podcast. All these kind of different avenues. Yeah. [00:24:00] Speaker A: I'm sorry, what does it look like when you go and work with a sports team in school? Tell us more what you do, because I don't. It's not obvious. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, all those means. So I'm going in and giving a talk or a retreat or. I have a master's in strength and conditioning and a sort of. No, sorry. A master's in psychology and a certification in strength and conditioning. So what I love about the church and I find that this is different than Christian ministries in sports is we believe in integration. Sport doesn't compete. Right. It's an integrated. So the physical, mental, and spiritual, if we can develop all of those, they affect one another. [00:24:30] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:24:31] Speaker B: So what's beautiful is when I go in and give a talk or run a workout or whatever. And the beautiful part about sport is it's an avenue for evangelization because you go into even the most Catholic school, though we're in Christian schools, we're in secular settings. You get a full range. You get a lot of diversity in sport. But what I find is when you present these truths, people are so hungry for truth that there's a. There's. I mean, of course I've gotten pushback, but there's just a vast receptivity. And those truth sets you free. [00:25:08] Speaker A: Amen. [00:25:09] Speaker B: I mean, you have to work towards the process of coming to realize your deepest identity as daughter and how to apply that. But even that statement, I mean, you just see immediate effects. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Completely. Yeah. I actually want to talk about the beauty of sports because you're healing wounds, but you're also helping people. [00:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Fierce Is like, there's a super positive title, right? Like, you want people to be more athletic, not less. Not to exit athleticism to find Jesus, but to help that see as a path to find the Lord. Talk about theology of the body, but it's always in relation to intimate life between a husband and wife. But it's like, there's a theology of the body that applies to sports. Dive into that. How do people get formed spiritually when they do sports in the right way? [00:25:56] Speaker B: Yeah. John Paul ii. Love. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Amen. [00:26:00] Speaker B: He just so good. It's really fun. We have a spiritual board of directors, and he's just, like, front and center. Well, Joan of Arc's our board chairman, but he's like, right there. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Joan of Arc is your. Oh, you're nice, dude. [00:26:13] Speaker B: She's just awesome. But JB2 is a personal. He's my papa. He's for me deeply. But one of my favorite quotes by him is that athletics is a gymnasium of human virtue. And really, the virtue, I think, sport today. Because you gotta think most kids are on their phones all day. You know, I've learned recently from a Catholic therapist we're working with on some of our formation that before she can even teach people some of these truths about your deepest identity, she has to teach people to be in space and time. So a lot of young people today, they, like, don't even know what it is to be Sam right now sitting on this couch. Like, they have no sense of self because they're so digitized. Or all of their motivation is coming from the exterior. And so we have to teach people to come back to, like, I'm right here. Dang, here I am. And then you can realize, I'm creating the image and likeness of God. I'm feminine. [00:27:07] Speaker A: Wow, that's really powerful and disturbing. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. [00:27:13] Speaker A: We all lose ourselves in that. Oh, sure. Life moves so fast. But to hear that's like mindfulness, right? Like, yeah, before you can even pray, like, I'm sitting on a chair. I just took a breath. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Exactly. Because God's the eternal present. Right. [00:27:28] Speaker A: How do you know God's there until you've put yourself here? [00:27:31] Speaker B: Exactly. But the beauty of sport is that actually, you're forced to be in the present moment. I think it's one of the purest things left. You can't be on your phone. You gotta be interacting with people different from you. You gotta be handling conflict. You have to be suffering. You know, you have to. Like, this is one of my favorite quotes from a dear friend of mine. And she. She's a mom and she has been a coach for years. And she said that the reason that she loves sports and put her kids in sports is because it taught her kids lessons that as a mom, she couldn't teach them or wasn't willing. Cause you don't want your kid to suffer, you don't want your kid to get injured. But sport allows them to develop perseverance through suffering, dealing with hard circumstances, et cetera, et cetera. [00:28:14] Speaker A: Wow. It's actually. Yeah. It's probably the only place where it's genuinely just not socially acceptable to be looking at your phone. Every other place is. Yeah, right. Like, if kids are sitting around together in the living room, like, they'll all look down at their phone and they'll be together, separate, because they're connected. It's so weird. But it's not cool to be looking at your phone while you're running down a field kicking a ball. [00:28:37] Speaker B: No, you can't. And you have to be present. You're off daydreaming, like you're gonna miss the play. You're gonna. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So as a woman. [00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:47] Speaker A: I mean, people associate even words like fierce with masculinity. Right. You know, messed up knuckles, like these things are like, mmm, tough man quality. You know what I mean? Like, you're pushing through. And so for a woman to be athletic sometimes translates as, if I thrive at that, that means I'm an oddly shaped man. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Women are not small men. [00:29:13] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:15] Speaker A: You find a way to give voice to expressing the full beauty of femininity in that way. What's that look like? [00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it comes back a little bit to theology of the body. So God created two different bodies, and the revelation of that in masculinity and femininity is then different. So the male body is external. Right. Think about the sexual act. The male is sacrificing himself, giving of himself in a very vulnerable way to the bride. And so the height of masculinity is sacrifice. Your perfect model, Jesus Christ, who offers himself body and soul on the cross fully. Now, women were receptive. We're internal. So the height of our femininity is our receptivity and our ability to bear forth life. Our perfect model, Mary. I say that Mary is the fiercest woman that ever lived. Like, we talk about her, we talk about her tenderness, but, like, where is she fierce? She obviously is very receptive to the Lord in the annunciation and gives a fierce. Yes, but I think she's fierce at the foot of the cross. I Mean, she's witnessing and suffering with her son so intimately and still says yes to becoming our mother. Like, she crushes the head of Satan with a bare foot, you know? And so there's this fierceness that we talk about, but there's also this tenderness that's very natural in a woman and in our receptivity. So I go play sports. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah. What's that look like when you're crushing a team? [00:30:43] Speaker B: But it's different. It's like, you can be competitive. Absolutely. But it's. There's a difference. Like, if you look at how men play basketball versus women. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Yeah. What's it look like? Men. [00:30:53] Speaker B: I mean, look, the thing about men's basketball, it's a little more individualistic. It's more aggressive. Not that, you know, we don't lose our tempers, too, but. But there's just an aggression to it. There's a different athleticism. You're driving the hoop, dunking the ball. If you look at the women's game, there's more passing. They say it's a prettier game. That's cool, secular example. But it's just. [00:31:13] Speaker A: There's literally more passing. [00:31:14] Speaker B: There's literally more passing because we're more receptive. Marissa talked earlier about. We're more emotional. We're more connected. [00:31:20] Speaker A: So it's like, that's really cool. [00:31:22] Speaker B: It's crazy, though. It's like, you think about, like, we're in a game, and I tell people all the time, like, don't put your head down, because not only are you bringing attention to yourself, but now your teammates thinking about you. Because women were so concerned about one another, that it's like, oh, is she okay? [00:31:36] Speaker A: Wow. [00:31:36] Speaker B: There's just a totally different ethos to it. And then there's the added element of I love sport. Cause it's one of the. Okay. I can't say it's the only. But it's one of the only avenues where it's like, I'm choosing to suffer. It brings a beauty to suffering. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:50] Speaker B: But when we can add an element of, like, I'm choosing to go suffer right now. Right. Choosing to go do this workout or choosing to go play this game that's gonna hurt or race. But then when we can have the element of I'm actually gonna then offer that pain up, there's a deep receptivity to suffering and pain. And then making a gift, bearing forth life through a prayer in that. And so it's. It's. And I kind of had this revelation, actually, during a workout. It was. I Was like, lord. And I just. And that's. We have to be careful. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:23] Speaker B: Because we. We base our masculinity and femininity these days on very subjective things, you know? [00:32:30] Speaker A: Like what? [00:32:31] Speaker B: Like, you play sports, you're masculine. And I. I don't know. Yeah, like, whatever. [00:32:38] Speaker A: You like dolls, you're feminine. [00:32:39] Speaker B: I like dolls, you're feminine. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:41] Speaker B: But. But the problem with that is. And we do this with young kids, so there's an example. [00:32:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:45] Speaker B: And then if they don't. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Well, then you must be a girl. It's weird. It's like a hyper giving into gender roles. Yeah. While pretending that we don't exactly. It's such a. [00:32:58] Speaker B: They're so layered. [00:32:59] Speaker A: It's just. Can we just call it stupid? Cause it's so stupid. Like, we're beyond gender roles, but if you like dolls, we have to give you surgery. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Like, are you serious? [00:33:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's gotten to that point. [00:33:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Which is why, Objective. Objectively, because the subjective. It shifts between cultures or times or, you know, whatever. I mean, I have a woman, Carol, she's 82. [00:33:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:24] Speaker B: She played. It wasn't pro back then, but tennis against Billie Jean King. And she goes, I was scoffed at because I was athletic at my age. Now, like, within women's sports, I don't get that. Right. There's nuances. But anyway, when we can establish that the fact that I was created as a woman makes me feminine, period. Like, actually, John Paul, second says, you can't even really deny it. We can try, and plenty of women do. But it's. I'm body and soul. And so. So I just am. And then the way that I express that is just as unique as I am. But there are certain qualities and certain things like receptivity or bearing forth life or just kind of this motherly tenderness that is inherent to the woman, that can and does come out in sport or in whatever I'm called, to whatever. [00:34:12] Speaker A: My gift is beautiful. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Allow me to do. [00:34:15] Speaker A: I just. It's gorgeous. It's beautiful. Really. Like, I love thinking of that. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:19] Speaker A: It's just a woman's intuition. Her spatial awareness, her awareness of people and where they're at and what they're feeling, frankly. I mean, this is. And that's part of how God made you. It's also, I think it's just a natural, evolutionary, biological way. Like, a woman who is caring for a baby, nursing is not physically able to fend things off. So she's got to be hyper aware of what's going on around her, or she's going to get eaten by something more quickly. Right. But to see how that all plays out and, like, I see everybody who's with me on the court. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Exactly. It's just, you know, more directed. [00:34:54] Speaker A: There's the thing. I'm going to put the ball in that hole, you know. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:58] Speaker A: But they're both powerful in a different way. [00:35:01] Speaker B: Both good. Both very good. Yeah. [00:35:05] Speaker A: So cool. I just delight in that. It's beautiful. One massive curve ball. Society throws at that beauty. What's the scene right now? Like, what's going on with the whole transgender sports thing? Yeah. Is that shifting? [00:35:19] Speaker B: It is. It is. Praise God. It is shifting. You know, the Olympic Committee made a ruling on it. Other big bodies are making rulings. But I mean, just recently, which the [00:35:29] Speaker A: Olympic committees really aren't. No more. [00:35:32] Speaker B: No more. [00:35:33] Speaker A: Like on a natural law level, like a two year old could figure out, a five year old could figure out. That's not fair. That's fair. That's not fair. Yeah. How do you push back on that in a charitable way? Just by talking. Just by being open. Talking about how this makes you feel as a woman and feel. [00:35:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, truth. [00:35:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah. When given the opportunity. Yeah. [00:35:55] Speaker A: Tell me everything that you like. I don't want you to hold back here. Everything you guys are doing. Like, seriously, give me the sales pitch because I think this is so cool. How do people get fierce stuff? I watch the swag. Oh, yeah. [00:36:07] Speaker B: We're launching our swag. [00:36:08] Speaker A: I want to identify as a woman so that I can become part of fierce. Can I do that? No. Okay. You're. [00:36:13] Speaker B: But we are very pro man. That's the thing. Some of these groups become so, like, feminist, you know, it's like. No, we love men. [00:36:19] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:36:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and I say this if, you know a female athlete, you know, because it's. Yeah. A lot of. I think a lot of people are. Yeah. They still know what to do, you know. So check out our resources. Yeah. Fierce.org so we actually have some coaches. So we have Fierce Athlete is our main channel. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:39] Speaker B: And then we have Fierce Coach, which is coaches of female athletes. Fierce Forever, which is former athletes. We have Fierce Parent branded. So that's coming down the pipeline. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Heck, yeah. [00:36:48] Speaker B: Once we keep growing. Yeah. So. But Fierce Athletes clothing line. [00:36:52] Speaker A: You should do a whole clothing line. [00:36:53] Speaker B: Well, novice. They're awesome. Do you know them? [00:36:56] Speaker A: No. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Shout out. They're Catholic guys. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Really? Yeah. [00:36:59] Speaker B: They're awesome. So they're. They're. This is our new swag. Athletes love swag. [00:37:04] Speaker A: I know. [00:37:05] Speaker B: So. [00:37:05] Speaker A: Oh, that's cool. So go ahead, keep going. [00:37:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so I'd say our main things we do are events. So I'll go into school or team, mostly high school. College is kind of where we focus. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Okay. [00:37:19] Speaker B: And give a talk, do a retreat, do a clinic, and then I mentor. So we're mentoring athletes. I mean, a bunch of pro athletes all the way down. [00:37:28] Speaker A: Really? [00:37:29] Speaker B: Yeah. We're kind of forming this awesome sisterhood of these athletes who are. Yeah. We're actually starting a pro college athlete Bible study here this summer. Yeah. Because we were just talking to them the other day, like, we want. There's a deep hunger because. Yeah. The women's sports culture is very woke and very crazy. There's a deep hunger for formation. Yeah. And then we've. We've been asking the question, well, how do we get out there? Like, you know, we're a small band operation. Like, how do we expand? And so we've just launched a video podcast, which is pretty cool. [00:38:01] Speaker A: Link below in the show notes. What is it? [00:38:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Fierce Athlete Podcast. [00:38:04] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:38:05] Speaker B: It's awesome. We're in month two right now, but we're. Yeah. Every week we're releasing. [00:38:09] Speaker A: So really what you're doing is helping people navigate through the insanity and thrive just by, like, being a voice that walks with them and showing them how to think. And if you do it right, it can help you. It can just. It can help you explode in who you are rather than stuff who you are, have to reframe who you are as masculine, have to change your sexual attractions or, you know, do things that make you feel morally compromised. It just. Yeah. So way to go. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. And one more thing, something that we have been beta testing, which has been wildly successful, is we're launching chapters now. So we have all of this kind of formative materials. And at high schools and universities, though, I could see them forming in communities as well. Women are going through. I wrote a book, and so they're going through what's called Be Fierce, the Athlete's Guide to Growing Physically, Mentally and Spiritually. [00:38:57] Speaker A: Can I read it as a guy? Yeah. [00:39:00] Speaker B: It's written towards women, but there's a lot of, like, the truths that we've talked about. [00:39:04] Speaker A: We're linking below in the show notes. [00:39:05] Speaker B: 100 pages. Super. It's practical. It's like athletes like to practice. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker B: So do this. Do this. [00:39:13] Speaker A: Actually, I was gonna land the plane, but can you please tell me what's in that book? Like, break that out for me. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's. [00:39:18] Speaker A: What is the Guide. Yeah. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Five main. Five main chapters. We start with identity. Everything we talked about. Where do we falsely base our identity? And then who is our. I guess it's six chapters. The second one is who is our identity? And it's Jesus. Then it looks at femininity. So kind of what we talked about in terms of the integration of my femininity into my athleticism and who I really am. And then it goes through the physical, mental, and spiritual. So how do I physically view my body? As good. As very good. As a gift. As an indwelling of the spirit. [00:39:48] Speaker A: Not some abuse through athleticism or turn it to a tool or just. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Exactly. Dissociate. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Dissociate. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Yep. Then mental, which I love. Which is all kind of spiritual warfare, actually. So learning how to not listen to lies and things and renounce those. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:40:03] Speaker B: And then just the spiritual life, the active spiritual life. How I can use my sport to pray. But what we struggle with most as athletes is this performance mentality. So learning to be and learning to receive in prayer. So, yeah, so it's. It, you know, it has. It's short. It's like two pages. And then there's something to actually practically do that's beautiful. But, yeah, these chapters are kind of now forming in schools around the country, which is great, because really, we just want to change the culture. [00:40:30] Speaker A: All that's on Fierce. [00:40:30] Speaker B: Fierce.org it is all there. [00:40:33] Speaker A: Praise God. [00:40:34] Speaker B: Praise God. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming and talking about this. [00:40:37] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. [00:40:37] Speaker A: I just think what you do is so cool. And I've been watching for a while. I'm like, we gotta have her hair on. I'm gonna say back on, but that was when I was at the show. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Should we drop our. Our common fact. [00:40:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:48] Speaker B: That we are both, in the last two years, the Walsh University commencement speakers. [00:40:52] Speaker A: You got your honorary doctorate the year before. Doctor. [00:40:55] Speaker B: Doctor. [00:40:56] Speaker A: Doctor. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Doctor. [00:40:57] Speaker A: Yep. We can both together perform appendicitis. Appendectomies. We could do it all, pretty much. It's more of a general. Anything you need. It's a general doctor. But mine was in applied theology. What was yours? [00:41:09] Speaker B: Applied leadership. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Heck, yeah. That was a serious honor. Man, I'm so stoked you did that. [00:41:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:16] Speaker A: You know who else did? You know who else got an honorary doctorate from Walsh? [00:41:18] Speaker B: Mother Teresa. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Mother Teresa. [00:41:21] Speaker B: I mean, we got some good. [00:41:23] Speaker A: I started my talk by saying this is a serious step down from previous commencement speakers. That's awesome. Okay. Let's pray for your knee. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:41:32] Speaker A: Please. The name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Everybody watching Pray for Sam's knee. Jesus asks you right now to reach down and touch Sam's knee and restore it and just pull all the ligaments back together. Whatever the heck is wrong with it, fix it, Jesus. Give her strength to run that triathlon and to glorify you. May you be glorified through the healing of her knee. In your holy name, Jesus, we ask it. And above all, we ask you to continue to bless and continue to heal her spirit and make her whole and keep her whole from within so she can keep guiding so many young women, Jesus, to a fullness of life and identity and freedom in you. Mary, our mama, pray for us. And would you pray for everybody watching, Especially people who are watching, who are like, you know, feeling a little like we covered this in a lighthearted way. But there's people who, like, are watching, having things kicked up, who are thinking, my gosh, I'm really into athletics and it's messing with my head. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:32] Speaker A: You know? Yeah. Say a word to that person and lead us in prayer. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna invite everybody, actually to do something. So I just invite you to just. If you're. If you're thinking that. If you're not, just do this as well. Just invite you to close your eyes and just picture the Lord, however he comes to you, whether that's God the Father. I love to picture God the Father like Abe Lincoln style, like Lincoln Memorial, just big and crawl into his lap. Or maybe it's Jesus. Maybe it's Jesus on the cross. Maybe that's too intense. Maybe it's Jesus in the manger. Just. Just picture the Lord and whatever is just. Just stirring in your heart, whether it's a deep confusion, whether it's an old wound, whether it's maybe a lie that you've believed all these years about not being feminine or your athleticism being bad or fundamentally, if. And this is constantly, for me, just a deep desire to realize and live from our truest identity as daughter or as son of God. Whatever that desire is, whatever the pain is, I just invite you to just hand that pain to the Lord. Hand that memory to the Lord. Hand that lie that maybe you're not good enough, that you're not beautiful enough, that you're not worthy, that you're not lovable, that you're unseen, that you're alone, that you're not feminine enough or masculine enough, whatever that lie of your life, you're not pure enough. You're defined by what's happened to you or been done to you, whatever that is. I just invite you to give that to the Lord. Just put it in his hands. To see the tears well up in his eyes because he feels your pain. And as you let go of it, in exchange, I just want you to receive and hear the Lord call you son or call you daughter with such pride, with such delight, with such claim, with such purity and just the deep realization that he doesn't look at you and see any of those broken parts, but he looks at you and just sees goodness and beauty. We thank you, Jesus. We pray that you would just continue to heal our hearts in this way. We pray this in your mighty name. Amen. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Dude, I did not explain this. I cried. [00:45:15] Speaker B: Get out of here. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Oh, man. You know. You know what hit me? Just the. Just my son. Like, dude, what a great powerful meditation. Because we could call God father. And I don't often think about him, what that means. He's looking at you saying, my son, my daughter. Like, sit in that. That's mighty. [00:45:31] Speaker B: That's what heals. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:33] Speaker B: That's why. Well, that was the spirit. Do that on fire now. But yeah, and that's practical, right? Like, do that, do that again and again and again. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Yeah. My son. Boom. I was a little stuck in. I'm an ADD brain. I was stuck for a minute on Abe Lincoln. I'm like, God doesn't look like Abe Lincoln. Oh, wait, wait. She's saying like the memorial, like the big guy. Okay, I got it. Okay. [00:45:56] Speaker B: Crawl up there. [00:45:56] Speaker A: No, Get Abe Lincoln in my head again. I came back. Thank you. Thanks for that prayer. I'm go back to that. Because this is not just sports. Like any area of life, we accidentally trip into conditional loving ourselves. You know, like, no matter what you're doing. You know, I had a bishop sit in that chair earlier today. Like, I'm sure he struggles with this. Everybody be performance based. Love ourselves, you know? And my son. Boom. Praise God. I love you. I'm proud of you. Way to kick butt. Yeah. And I love you guys. Thanks so much for watching. The father loves you. He calls you his son or his daughter. Check out fierce.org and if you ever find stumble across like a Catholic one word website for sale, just let me know. Like Catholic answers. If you want to just give up Catholic.com, i will buy it. I don't have much money, but we'll work something out. Maybe I'll even go.org, i'll even do the.org thing. Anyway, thanks for watching guys. I'll see you next time.